Curse

magi of the light · Nov 10, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

so they nerfed splinter weapon so that it only strikes 3 adjecent foes....wtf is up with that i mean seruilsy its not like our bows do much damage am i right? (yes i know rangers arent a DPS class...but sometimes high damage ouput is usefull. not to mention its going to make it harder for us rangers to get into elite missions...

so yea what do you guys think? was the combonation to overpowered to begin with? or is it another one of those screw up nerfs that hurt our poor bow weilding pixels?

hellyea526 · Nov 10, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

it was nerfed because splinter weapon was way overpowered at vod for gvg

magi of the light · Nov 10, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

hmm another reason for pvp and pve nerfs to be seperate...stupid anet..

Toutatis · Nov 10, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Damage is not everything, especially to a Ranger. There are many other extremely powerful things that you can do in a team setting, even without Splinter Weapon. Rangers are an incredibly versatile profession that can adapt to fit virtually any role that's required.

So another skill got nerfed. It's not that much of a big deal at all. There are hundreds, if not thousands of other options and it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with something better.

Drakken Breathes Fire · Nov 10, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Hitting three people at once isn't enough?
Hell, take secondary necromancer, spec 10 into curses, and take mark of pain+barrage (or any other multishot skill that can be spammed.)
It'll own the piss out of your sad little splinter weapon. (Even before 'nerf.')

magi of the light · Nov 10, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutatis

Damage is not everything, especially to a Ranger. There are many other extremely powerful things that you can do in a team setting, even without Splinter Weapon. Rangers are an incredibly versatile profession that can adapt to fit virtually any role that's required.

So another skill got nerfed. It's not that much of a big deal at all. There are hundreds, if not thousands of other options and it's only a matter of time before someone comes up with something better.

did you not pay atention to anything i said at all in my original post....
if you had payed any atention you would have seen that i know rangers arent a damaging class.....unless i have the meaning of DPS wrong...do i????

lishi · Nov 10, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by magi of the light

hmm another reason for pvp and pve nerfs to be seperate...stupid anet..

It wasnt weak in pve also, its utility was esponential with the number of people hit.

nechronius · Nov 10, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

My math could be all wrong here, so someone check my figures, but...

Splinter Weapon: functionality changed to: "For 20 second[s], target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1..5 attacks deal 5..50 damage on up to 3 adjacent foes."

Was:
Total damage = Ch * n * (n-1)

Is:
Total damage = Ch * n * (n-1 with max of 3)

where
n = number of "adjacent enemies"
Ch = damage of a single "splinter"

Let's assume that each "splinter" does 41 points of damage (at channeling of 12 from the "old" version). What is the theoretical max damage of the skill?

First column = number of bunched targets hit with barrage
Second column = TOTAL damage inflicted by splinter bonus hits
Third column = extra splinter damage inflicted on EACH enemy

OLD:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 820 164 each
6 1230 205 each
7 1722 246 each
8 2296 287 each
9 2952 328 each
10 3690 369 each
11 4510 410 each
12 5412 451 each
The damage scaling is LINEAR, not geometric or exponential.

NEW:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 615 123 each
6 738 123 each
(and so on)
Damage is now capped at 3x the damage of a single splinter

In other words, if you're firing a barrage into a group of FOUR enemies, there is zero difference between old and new in terms of damage under the spell.

Damage stops scaling upwards after 4 targets. Even if you have a dozen targets bunched up under the new splinter rules, doing 123 EXTRA damage per target per barrage is still quite respectable.

In conclusion, splinter weapon is still FAR from being a useless spell. It's just no longer a god-like damaging spell for theoretically bunched up targets. In normal practice you will probably not see a difference in terms of actual damage inflicted.

(edit - quick mathematical correction for when there are 7 enemies under the old system)

magi of the light · Nov 10, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

My math could be all wrong here, so someone check my figures, but...

Splinter Weapon: functionality changed to: "For 20 second[s], target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1..5 attacks deal 5..50 damage on up to 3 adjacent foes."

Was:
Total damage = Ch * n * (n-1)

Is:
Total damage = Ch * n * (n-1 with max of 3)

where
n = number of "adjacent enemies"
Ch = damage of a single "splinter"

Let's assume that each "splinter" does 41 points of damage (at channeling of 12 from the "old" version). What is the theoretical max damage of the skill?

First column = number of bunched targets hit with barrage
Second column = TOTAL damage inflicted by splinter bonus hits
Third column = extra splinter damage inflicted on EACH enemy

OLD:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 820 164 each
6 1230 205 each
7 1764 252 each
8 2296 287 each
9 2952 328 each
10 3690 369 each
11 4510 410 each
12 5412 451 each
The damage scaling is LINEAR, not geometric or exponential.

NEW:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 615 123 each
6 738 123 each
(and so on)
Damage is now capped at 3x the damage of a single splinter

In other words, if you're firing a barrage into a group of FOUR enemies, there is zero difference between old and new in terms of damage under the spell.

Damage stops scaling upwards after 4 targets. Even if you have a dozen targets bunched up under the new splinter rules, doing 123 EXTRA damage per target per barrage is still quite respectable.

In conclusion, splinter weapon is still FAR from being a useless spell. It's just no longer a god-like damaging spell for theoretically bunched up targets. In normal practice you will probably not see a difference in terms of actual damage inflicted.

hey thanks for clearing that up

Drakken Breathes Fire · Nov 10, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Now, bring a necro in your party with mark of pain XP

mrmango · Nov 10, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Yea it wasn't a big deal.

Washi · Nov 10, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakken Breathes Fire

Hitting three people at once isn't enough?
Hell, take secondary necromancer, spec 10 into curses, and take mark of pain+barrage (or any other multishot skill that can be spammed.)
It'll own the piss out of your sad little splinter weapon. (Even before 'nerf.')

LOL what a joke. I guess you have some problems understanding how skills work. Mark of pain only works on ONE enemy, if you hit that one guy then he will spread the damage on adjecent foes.

Well spliter worked on 5 arrows from barrage so 5 targets spread the damage. Looks like splinter was 5 times more effective than your "sad little" mark of pain.

Besides you can only use MoP once every 20 seconds and the guy you put it one usually will die after what? 3 seconds? WOW thats a lot of damage that skill does.

Seriously dude, learn your game before you say some skill is sad.

crucifix · Nov 10, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

LOL what a joke. I guess you have some problems understanding how skills work. Mark of pain only works on ONE enemy, if you hit that one guy then he will spread the damage on adjecent foes.

Well spliter worked on 5 arrows from barrage so 5 targets spread the damage. Looks like splinter was 5 times more effective than your "sad little" mark of pain.

Besides you can only use MoP once every 20 seconds and the guy you put it one usually will die after what? 3 seconds? WOW thats a lot of damage that skill does.

Seriously dude, learn your game before you say some skill is sad.

yep, you're an idiot. MoP has way higher damage, doesnt drop after 3 attacks, and is way more useful in certain situations. DOnt bitch about aoe ranger attacks, use traps.

Dark Paladin X · Nov 10, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Don't forget about the turai procession farm, (which I'm going to test to see how horrible it is after the nerf) when you are going for survivor (or for me that I failed on survivor, getting the elite skill title track). I'm not sure if the build is effective or not, but I'm guessing the build would be slower than ever.

On the other hand, trying not to complain, I am upset on this nerf, but I'm trying to figure out a way to work around this for my ranger to get a heck load of exp from farming.

UPDATE: test the build myself, the build no longer works in NM and HM, not enough AoE damage. I'm holding a protest against the nerf of splinter weapon at international district one at Great temple of bathazaar. If anyone STILL care about the turai procession farm to get survivor or at least skill points for elite skill cap as ranger or ritualist, please come and protest and use /fistshake a lot

MBP · Nov 10, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

if you got eye of the north just using I am the Strongest should be able to give you enough damage even with the splinter nerf

bsoltan · Nov 11, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBP

if you got eye of the north just using I am the Strongest should be able to give you enough damage even with the splinter nerf

I've been using that along with a Conjure Enchantment to do some decent damage.

The change to Splinter Weapon does have a bit of impact on our rangers, but there are still plenty of ways to do damage and even if you didn't want to put it on your skill bar it is still useful to have on a Rit hero to just throw around when they like.

Pyro maniac · Nov 11, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

oh no, rangers are weak at PvE !!1!

Splinter barrage still works the for groups smaller then 4 mobs. Turai's Procession got nerfed yes, along with some other farming places. But in genereal PvE it has got very little effect. Can't think of any places where you could actually handle many mobs and even be able to cluster them, except some normal mode places wich are already easy.

Dark Paladin X · Nov 11, 2007, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Well the problem is that rangers don't have a lot of farming builds to farm exp in general while elementalists, monks, and assassins have wider variety. And since I don't have GWEN, i can't access this item that could give a skill point to some character (i don't know what it is but it suppose to be a consumable). So there are many reasons why I'm protesting this. Not only that, the splinter/barrage build for turai procession quest seems to be the only build that is the most useful for rangers (and proven to give faster exp than Jade Arena).

MisterB · Nov 11, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

Well the problem is that rangers don't have a lot of farming builds to farm exp in general while elementalists, monks, and assassins have wider variety. And since I don't have GWEN, i can't access this item that could give a skill point to some character (i don't know what it is but it suppose to be a consumable). So there are many reasons why I'm protesting this. Not only that, the splinter/barrage build for turai procession quest seems to be the only build that is the most useful for rangers (and proven to give faster exp than Jade Arena).

Solo-trapping Stygian Veil in Hard mode yeilds ridiculous amounts of experience, very quickly. The Energizing Wind change doesn't really matter.

Chthon · Nov 12, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechronius

My math could be all wrong here, so someone check my figures

It's a bit off. Corrections in bold.

Quote:

Splinter Weapon: functionality changed to: "For 20 second[s], target ally has a Splinter Weapon. Target ally's next 1..5 attacks deal 5..50 damage on up to 3 adjacent foes."

Foes beyond 3 are not damaged.

Quote:

Let's assume that each "splinter" does 41 points of damage (at channeling of 12 from the "old" version). What is the theoretical max damage of the skill?

First column = number of bunched targets hit with barrage
Second column = TOTAL damage inflicted by splinter bonus hits
Third column = extra splinter damage inflicted on EACH enemy

OLD:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 820 164 each
6 1230 205 each
7 1722 246 each
8 2296 287 each
9 2952 328 each
10 3690 369 each
11 4510 410 each
12 5412 451 each

NEW:
1 0 0 each
2 82 41 each
3 246 82 each
4 492 123 each
5 492 123 to 4 foes, 0 to 1 foe*
6 492 123 to 4 foes, 0 to 2 foes*
(and so on)

Total aggregate Damage is now capped at 4 attacks times 3 foes times the damage of a single splinter.

*or some other distribution with the same total if different arrows splinter to different sets of 3 foes.

At a 12-foe cluster (which wasn't impossible to find) the nerf changes the damage output from 5412 to 492. I don't think a loss of nearly 5000 damage can be categorized as anything other than a HUGE nerf. Even at 5 foes -- something which was altogether common -- we're losing nearly 50% of the damage.